This probably belongs behind a buffer image

"Bryan doesn't drive a 1M" (bryantakespictures)
10/19/2017 at 11:04 • Filed to: None

Politics... also, I’m bad at buffers.

NFL / Trump fans are mad about players kneeling during the national anthem, but pretty quiet about Trump literally disrespecting a fallen soldier. And not only that, but disrespecting him on a phone call to the soldier’s family.

This isn’t even the first fucking time he’s disrespected specific, real life fallen soldiers to their families. Not “the troops” in an abstract sense, but actual people who actually lost their loved ones who actually died for their country.

How on earth does this man have even one supporter left? (and if you have any question about the legitimacy of the accusation from a senator and grieving widow vs Trump, go fuck yourself. Trump has a list of proven lies a thousand miles long, so unless Trump produces a recording he doesn’t get benefit of the doubt.)

DISCUSSION (65)

TheHondaBro > Bryan doesn't drive a 1M
10/19/2017 at 11:07

He has followers because the scared racists like his rhetoric. It’s basically as if we’ve elected someone’s racist old father into office. He’s telling all the scary brown folk to get off his lawn while complaining that the ‘bad hombres’ are taking all the jobs.

Bryan doesn't drive a 1M > TheHondaBro
10/19/2017 at 11:13

Yes, and the race of the soldiers he has disrespected is no coincidence.

Textured Soy Protein > Bryan doesn't drive a 1M
10/19/2017 at 11:13

You’re assuming hardcore Trump supporters have some kind of logical, rational reason they support Trump, and that his bad behavior would somehow convince them to no longer accept that reasoning.

EL_ULY > Bryan doesn't drive a 1M
10/19/2017 at 11:15

Master of Puppets*

old hateful puppets with lots of money and power/general uneducated and fear consumed simple folk.

jimz > Bryan doesn't drive a 1M
10/19/2017 at 11:16

anyone who is still in his corner at this point is never going to change their mind.

functionoverfashion > Bryan doesn't drive a 1M
10/19/2017 at 11:16

I am at a loss when I try to process the lies and incredibly childish behavior that comes from Trump daily. Long ago in one of the debates where Hillary called him a puppet, he leaned down into the mic and said (interrupting), “You’re a puppet.” I mean, seriously? Anyone says anything bad about him and he strikes back with, “No I’m not, you are! And you’re ugly too!” And I’d say I’m using hyperbole but that’s actually something he would say.

Here’s something I read yesterday that describes my real concern at this point. Never mind his policies, this is the bigger issue, and kind of always has been:

“Violating the norms of personal conduct generates more anxiety and fear than any policy prescription that this president has annunciated,” Biden said. “This breaking down of international and national norms is the glue that holds the liberal world order together, and holds together our system. That is what is being attacked and that’s what’s most dangerous.”

Please tell me this is all a bad dream.

Wacko > Bryan doesn't drive a 1M
10/19/2017 at 11:18

Funny thing is if you read any CNN/FOX/other news article comments everyone seems to be pro-Trump.

Either Trump has the worlds greatest trolls or The USA population is actually the most racist and clueless population in the world.

I hope it’s the trolls.

Bryan doesn't drive a 1M > Textured Soy Protein
10/19/2017 at 11:18

I’m assuming the “hardcore” Trump supporters are racists at heart, because anyone who looks at him even halfway critically could possibly support him at this point. But you’re right, I don’t expect his hardcore supporters to change their minds.

Unfortunately, there are still somehow casual Trump supporters who excuse this kind of thing and the many, many, measurable ways that Trump has damaged this country in less than a year. And beyond the casual Trump supporters, there are many GOP voters who remain supportive of the GOP after all they’ve seen this year. Insanity.

Supreme Chancellor and Glorious Leader SaveTheIntegras > Bryan doesn't drive a 1M
10/19/2017 at 11:18

As a NFL fan who believes the league is beyond broken, I could care less that players aren’t being forced to stand or are “disrespecting” the flag.

As broken as the NFL is on a social and cultural level, the political attack on it is just as broken.

Bryan doesn't drive a 1M > functionoverfashion
10/19/2017 at 11:20

I really wish I could tell you that.

For Sweden > Bryan doesn't drive a 1M
10/19/2017 at 11:20

How on earth does this man have even one supporter left?

Ted Kennedy literally left a woman in a sinking car to suffocate to death, and was re-elected. Don’t expect fans of particular politicians to think rationally about those politicians.

cmill189 - sans Volvo > Bryan doesn't drive a 1M
10/19/2017 at 11:21

The NFL bullshit was never about the troops, the flag, or respect for the USA. It’s a way to be racist without being overtly racist. The country has a long history of trying to put black people “back in their place” any time they get a perceived leg up. Kaepernick had a unique opportunity to use his platform to make people pay attention. Kneeling in the locker room or the tunnel doesn’t mean or accomplish a thing. The whole point is for people to see.

Bryan doesn't drive a 1M > Wacko
10/19/2017 at 11:21

On the internet, it probably is trolls. Russian trolls. Impossible to even tell which is which at this point, though.

Wacko > Bryan doesn't drive a 1M
10/19/2017 at 11:22

what a time to be alive!

Daily Drives a Dragon - One Last Lap > Bryan doesn't drive a 1M
10/19/2017 at 11:22

How does he have a supporter left? Because humanity continues to prove its brokenness.

Bryan doesn't drive a 1M > For Sweden
10/19/2017 at 11:24

That is inexcusable, and you’re right about political followers, but I can still be depressed by that.

JeepJeremy > cmill189 - sans Volvo
10/19/2017 at 11:24

Kaepernick is a hero

He’ll be mentioned (hopefully, if true, intelligent Americans start winning elections) in text books the way Rosa Parks is.

Bryan doesn't drive a 1M > cmill189 - sans Volvo
10/19/2017 at 11:27

I completely agree, and it was obvious that it was never about those things before this recent development, but now it’s undeniable.

f86sabre > Bryan doesn't drive a 1M
10/19/2017 at 11:32

This follows with the idea that he likes “winners”. Remember the McCain thing where he said he liked people who didn’t get captured? In his mind people who did are losers. Get killed in combat then you are a loser. You should have killed the other guy first. I seriously think he just sees the world as winners and losers. Loser is one of his favorite words.

Also, the guy is a habitual liar. Just listen to him talk. A 7th grade debate team could grind him up on facts.

Textured Soy Protein > Bryan doesn't drive a 1M
10/19/2017 at 11:39

Believe me, I’m right there with you in terms of my level of frustration with politics at the moment. I read this article a couple months ago and it was kind of a light bulb moment for me.

Liberal ideas tend to be focused more on end results and unconcerned with the principles that are so important to conservatives. Liberals are like, “Here’s this problem! We as a society should fix it! Here’s how! Ok go!”

But a lot of conservative ideas about how to govern are focused on the principles and values about how things should work, and are less concerned with the consequences. Principles like, not wanting the government to do stuff, not wanting the government to spend money, but wanting the rule of law, Christianity-based morality, and authority to be respected, while also wanting personal freedoms to be respected (at least as it pertains to things saying whatever they feel like and hoarding guns, but not so much when it comes to having an abortion or not being illegally searched by police).

So for example, liberals say, “we want more people to have healthcare, the health insurance industry has failed at doing this so we’re going to get the government involved.” Conservatives say, “the government shouldn’t be forcing me to do stuff and it shouldn’t spend more money than it has to, and also maybe I don’t want those undeserving lazy no-good poor people to get free stuff with my tax dollars.”

It doesn’t matter to them that literally millions more people have healthcare under Obamacare than before, because to them Obamacare was a government over-reach that spends more money.

Yes obviously it’s more complicated than that but each side is coming at the same issue with entirely different concerns. And both sides do a bad job of understanding the other’s concerns.

Personally, my opinion is that it’s wrong to cling to principles like, “BUT I DON’T WANT THE GOVERNMENT TO DO STUFF,” when in many cases the only way to make some kind of improvement for a large chunk of society is for the government to do stuff.

But that’s not how the other side sees it.

Jayhawk Jake > Bryan doesn't drive a 1M
10/19/2017 at 11:41

It’s your parenthesis in the last paragraph that’s critical here. Trump supporters support Trump, period. He has built a shield around himself by making grandious claims about himself and shooting down anything to the contrary as fake news. Essentially, if it’s positive it’s true, if it’s negative it’s false. So his supporters parrot the same lines. It’s almost impressively ignorant, the scary equivalent of a toddler putting their fingers in their ears and shouting “LALALALALALALA I CAN’T HEAR YOU SO IT ISN’T REAL LALALALALALALALA”.

Unfortunately there doesn’t seem to be anything to do to stop it. There will always be a conspiracy theory to protect him from the truth.

ttyymmnn > Bryan doesn't drive a 1M
10/19/2017 at 11:46

Portraying the protests as anti-American or anti-flag is a ruse to deflect from the actual thing that these athletes (and others) are protesting. The kneeling protests have nothing to do with the flag, but Trump and his right-wing media shills have conflated it into an anti-American issue because it warms the hearts of their bigoted base and gives them something to be outraged about. Rather than discussing what these athletes are protesting, they are upset about how they are protesting. They choose to forget that our country has a long and storied history of constitutionally protected protest, and that our country was literally founded by protesters who dumped tea into Boston harbor. Trump and his supporters are on the wrong side of history, and as bad as things are now, I am optimistic that they will be proven wrong.

Jayhawk Jake > Textured Soy Protein
10/19/2017 at 11:48

Great summary. What bothers me is the inability for many conservatives to relate their views to things that might actually affect them or their fellow Americans on a real personal level.

Like healthcare as you mentioned: conservatives don’t want the government to waste more money. But why? What does that money really impact? I suppose one could argue the money comes from taxes and taxes come from the people, but that’s reaching pretty far beyond the other view that is “people should have access to healthcare”.

What REALLY bothers me is the all or nothing attitude of our current political arena. Want the government to spend less money? Then you have to also want a bigger military, more guns, and no gays. But that’s a different issue and discussion for a different day.

Bryan doesn't drive a 1M > Textured Soy Protein
10/19/2017 at 11:49

I actually remember reading that article. It makes me sad that more people don’t pay attention to real data, when the research has already been done to answer so many of these policy questions. Healthcare, climate change, tax policy, gun control, you name it and there’s definitive research that points the way forward based on real life really real facts. It’s old hat at this point, but the anti-science, anti-expert stance this country has taken kills me.

Bryan doesn't drive a 1M > ttyymmnn
10/19/2017 at 11:55

I’m also optimistic that Trump and his supporters will be proven wrong eventually, I’m just scared of how much damage will be done by that time.

ttyymmnn > Bryan doesn't drive a 1M
10/19/2017 at 11:57

It’s going to take a while.

My bird IS the word > ttyymmnn
10/19/2017 at 12:03

You are right, but at the same time you won’t see these nfl players protesting in their free time, because it’s an attention thing.

Can you imagine if the nfl marched on Washington? Even in the off season.

Chariotoflove > cmill189 - sans Volvo
10/19/2017 at 12:05

Before you go yelling racism, think about this. What if the person who started this kneeling trend was Aaron Rogers, Andrew Luck, or some other lily white player? Would everyone just ignore it or even praise it? No!, I can guarantee you that the same people would be just as up in arms as are now.

That’s because it was a stupid thing to do. It was stupid because it didn’t communicate its intended point. Refusing to stand for our national anthem doesn’t send a message of protest of the way a specific group is treated in our country. It’s a giant middle finger to the entire nation . That flag, and the anthem sung before it, represents the ideals that this country continually aspires to live up to, for black, white, and any other color. Saying, “fuck you all, I’m out” is unproductive and misplaced for anyone who wants to make a real change.

I wish we would stop calling opposition to everything a POC does “racist”. If you agree or disagree, do it on its merits, but don’t throw out #racist as a way to dismiss the conversation. It distracts from the real point, which is the propriety of the original action.

ttyymmnn > My bird IS the word
10/19/2017 at 12:07

What good is protesting if nobody sees it? I can take a knee in my living room, but nobody would know.

Textured Soy Protein > Bryan doesn't drive a 1M
10/19/2017 at 12:20

All the data about how something will make a positive impact in the real world doesn’t matter to them if the path to that positive impact runs over the principles that are important to them.

Global warming is a perfect example.

The science says greenhouse gas emissions cause global warming, and the industries that emit greenhouse gasses don’t reduce those emissions on their own.

Liberals say “ok the government has to step in and regulate these industries to stop them from emitting greenhouse gasses.”

Conservatives say, “MORE REGULATIONS ARE BAD, YOU CAN’T HAVE THEM, RESTRICTIONS ON INDUSTRY WILL KILL JOBS BECAUSE OF REAGANOMICS” and attack the science that liberals use as a reason for more regulations, because that’s argumentation 101: if you don’t like someone’s conclusion, attack the premises on which it’s based.

X37.9XXS > ttyymmnn
10/19/2017 at 12:22

The whole American flag pin thing was a stunt by the Arch-traitor back in 1970, two full years after he betrayed his country

According to Stephen E. Ambrose’s biography Nixon , the President got the idea for sporting a lapel pin from his chief of staff, H.R. Haldeman, who had noticed a similar gesture in the Robert Redford film The Candidate . Nixon commanded all of his aides to go and do likewise. The flag pins were noticed by the public, and many in Nixon’s supposed “silent majority” began to similarly sport flags on their lapels. Over the next few decades, the pin sporadically surged in popularity

Ever since, any time a politician wraps itself up in the F*L*A*G*, I KNOW that it is about to hide in the “last refuge,” and try to kill you

Textured Soy Protein > Jayhawk Jake
10/19/2017 at 12:25

It’s not an inability to relate views to how things actually turn out, it’s a disregard for how things will turn out, because how things turn out just isn’t important to them. What IS important to them is how things are done, not why or what’s the intended result. It’s quite literally making policy while saying “BUT IT’S THE PRINCIPLE OF IT” without regard for the consequences. Is this a good idea? Of course not, but that’s how a lot of people think about government.

I also agree with you that it’s silly for us to sort ourselves into these weird catch-all coalitions of issues, but that’s a symptom of a 2-party system. People pick a side based on what’s important to them and tend to take on the other issues that are part of that coalition of ideas.

cmill189 - sans Volvo > Chariotoflove
10/19/2017 at 12:28

Why are you coming up with a hypothetical that doesn’t exist? What would Rogers need to protest? Is he protesting the unequal treatment of black people by police? How do you know all these people would be reacting the same?

I’m yelling racism because it is racism. If you want to call it give a middle finger to the entire nation, fine. That’s our goddamn right as Americans.

If black people complain about injustices quietly, nothing changes.

If black people riot or march in the streets, white people say stop being thugs.

If black people get behind a NFL player that has the power to make people pay attention, white people make a false equivalence to patriotism and a song that tons of people tune out because it’s played 4,000 times a week.

If white people march in the streets with the flag of of the Confederate States, white people say “MUH 1st Amendment rights!”

merged-5876237249235911857-hrw8uc > Bryan doesn't drive a 1M
10/19/2017 at 12:31

This interview is excellent and the senators view on the protests are pretty great. Worth the watch:

DipodomysDeserti > Chariotoflove
10/19/2017 at 12:35

You illistrate an important point:

You’re average NFL lacks the critical thinking skills to really understand what’s going on outside of their lilly-white neighborhood. Colin should have known his audience better.

yamahog > My bird IS the word
10/19/2017 at 12:36

“an attention thing”

Umm wouldn’t that be the point of using their highly visible platform for protest? Also, I’m not sure where you’re getting your info from but Google is free, Kaepernick and others do plenty of activism besides the “attention thing.”

https://www.sbnation.com/2017/5/4/15536948/colin-kaepernick-nfl-100-suits-new-york-parolees-activism

yamahog > Chariotoflove
10/19/2017 at 12:38

How is “the real point” the propriety of the protest and not the brutality and inequality being protested?

WilliamsSW > ttyymmnn
10/19/2017 at 12:38

This. Protests, pretty much by definition, have to be disruptive somehow. Otherwise, they’re too easy to ignore.

These athletes have a unique opportunity to get people’s attention - and that opportunity is on Sundays - not Tuesday at noon.

And Kaepernick made an effort to find a way to do it respectfully. They’re not disrespecting the flag, or the troops. From what I hear, many troops will tell you that they fought so we can keep our freedom - including our freedom to protest injustice.

Elumerere > Textured Soy Protein
10/19/2017 at 12:55

Well said.

One is based on dealing with the world as is, and trying to make things better, even if it means throwing away the idea of ‘perfect’. The other side is based on principles (at least, pretends to be, though it’s mostly just a con), facts and reality be damned.

Elumerere > Jayhawk Jake
10/19/2017 at 12:56

Especially since bigger military usually means spend way more!

functionoverfashion > Bryan doesn't drive a 1M
10/19/2017 at 13:09

The best thing I’ve been able to do when I’m appalled, yet again, by something he does or says, is to find a way to read about other parts of the world where things are far, far worse by an order of magnitude. Then I remember that I’m lucky to at least be here.

Then I hug my kids, my dogs, and my wife, and I move on with the next day. This too shall pass. Assuming we don’t get nuked.

Chariotoflove > cmill189 - sans Volvo
10/19/2017 at 13:34

The same outcry would go up no matter who showed disrespect to the flag. All those folks over in the Middle East who burn our flag? It evokes the same reaction. I’m telling you that the reaction he got to his action wasn’t because he was black and making a protest, it was because he was shitting on the symbol of our country. Anyone who did that would get the same reaction. Anyone.

Also, this isn’t about First Amendment rights. If an NFL player wants to make a protest, or flip off the country, or whatever on his own time, that’s protected free speech. When he does it while in uniform at work, it is not protected. He is representing his employer. This is why the league (and college football conferences as well) will fine coaches who criticize officiating calls publicly to shut them up and it’s perfectly legal. The same is true for any company. If I behave inappropriately at a University function where I am present as a faculty member, I am subject to censure and possible termination by my employer. It’s right there in the University policies, and it’s all legal. So Kaepernick or anyone else who breaks NFL rules is not protected by the First Amendment.

Chariotoflove > yamahog
10/19/2017 at 13:40

The action was not an effective protest of the inequality in question (which absolutely does exist; don’t get me wrong). I’m sure Kaepernick thought it was, but what it came across as was a big “fuck you, America”. Just look at the reaction in the news to see that. The big conversation is about respecting the flag, and only secondarily about equality for blacks. The action itself is the story, and the reason for the action is almost a footnote in most coverage (although that is now changing as the conversation spreads and goes on). That tells me this was an ill conceived way to protest.

Chariotoflove > DipodomysDeserti
10/19/2017 at 13:46

He should have known his audience better, and that shows a lack of thinking on his part. He came off as a petulant kid flipping off the entire country. There are scores of black, white, asian, and latino soldiers buried at Arlington who died for that flag and what it represents. When he thumbed his nose at it, he thumbed his nose at all Americans, not just the oppressing majority. That is not a good start to a productive conversation. I don’t think he did his cause any favors.

cmill189 - sans Volvo > Chariotoflove
10/19/2017 at 13:52

This is my fault for bringing up the 1st Amendment. I know how that works with private entities. No one is throwing a fit about the repercussions faced for them protesting. That’s irrelevant to the fact the President of the United States is throwing a fit about a private company, again. He started this firestorm. His minions who happen to be especially loud in this country are continuing to fan it.

Most people get it and I don’t expect you to change you mind. That’s fine.

yamahog > Chariotoflove
10/19/2017 at 13:53

I think you have the cause and effect reversed - the story was turned into MUH FLAG in order to derail and discredit the protest. Even if the intended statement was “fuck you America” honestly, at this point, people could use a wake up call as to why so many Americans might feel that way.

My bird IS the word > ttyymmnn
10/19/2017 at 13:54

pretty sure nfl teams doing large scale protests would draw some reporters.

Chariotoflove > yamahog
10/19/2017 at 13:57

I don’t get your reasoning at all. I think this was an ill-conceived way to bring up a point.

Do you really think that telling someone to fuck off is a good way to make them take a hard look at themselves? I don’t know anyone who responds with a “you know, you’re right, I deserved that!”

ttyymmnn > My bird IS the word
10/19/2017 at 14:03

But Sunday afternoon TV audiences are vastly larger.

My bird IS the word > ttyymmnn
10/19/2017 at 14:04

It also doesn’t require any real sacrifice on their part.

ttyymmnn > My bird IS the word
10/19/2017 at 14:07

You might want to ask Collin Kaepernick about sacrifice.

My bird IS the word > ttyymmnn
10/19/2017 at 14:22

one. guy.

Chariotoflove > cmill189 - sans Volvo
10/19/2017 at 14:34

No, I’m with you about the president. He needs to shut the hell up, get off Twitter, and do his job. I mean, theoretically he can voice his opinion just like anyone else, but he just doesn’t think of the repercussions of doing so, and of appearing to pressure private entities to do something. I felt similar about Baseball when the they had Congressional hearings. WTF? How is it government’s business to get involved with the operations of a private sports endeavor?

Getting back to Trump, I suspect his real problem isn’t that he’s actively racist, but that he’s totally race insensitive, which is almost as bad. What I mean is, I think he would say the same offensive stuff to any group if it suited his purpose, regardless of ethnicity or color. He’s an equal opportunity offender. He’s touching raw nerves we need to be trying to heal and fanning long standing fires that need to be put out.

yamahog > Chariotoflove
10/19/2017 at 14:34

There’s just so much projection and deflection going on that it’s silly.

First off, taking a knee during a song somehow being disrespectful to a piece of cloth. Flags somehow being proxies for “the troops,” “the troops” being a monolith who are only allowed to be disrespected on an individual basis by the Commander in Chief, and being disrespectful to a flag is somehow saying “fuck you” to a specific group of people who allegedly lack the capacity to see why other people have issues with blindly worshipping a state that murders them and then rarely convicts the state officers responsible.

Chariotoflove > yamahog
10/19/2017 at 14:39

I think that you are intelligent enough to understand the importance of symbolism, and educated enough to know what those symbols stand for to most of the populace. To intimate that that piece of cloth doesn’t matter is disingenuous. Kaepernick certainly knew that it did. That’s why he did what he did.

yamahog > Chariotoflove
10/19/2017 at 14:49

And I think you’re intelligent enough to realize that it’s not about the flag or the anthem and yet still find it appropriate to police how people choose to protest under the guise of respectability and concern trolling. Hence derailing the whole conversation in the first place.

DipodomysDeserti > Chariotoflove
10/19/2017 at 14:59

I was taught from a young age no to worship idols. Something about the word of god an comandments or something, so this whole disrespecting an inanimate object thing is a little below my pay grade. Like I said, lack of critical thinking skills to see beyond their lilly white neighborhoods.

I actually think he’s been successful, in a way. He helped reveal the level of ignorance present in a good portion of our society.

Chariotoflove > yamahog
10/19/2017 at 15:01

I am expressing my views on the topic, and I am doing it in a respectful manner. You suggest my social concern is false and accuse me of...something nefarious that you won’t quite articulate. That is most certainly not being “excellent” to me.

Jayhawk Jake > Chariotoflove
10/19/2017 at 15:20

I’m gonna disagree with your first paragraph.

I see plenty of flags plastered on the back of trucks. On hats. On T-Shirts. Tattered flags waving in front of people’s houses because they’re too lazy to take them down at night and put them up in the morning. Every 4th of July thousands upon thousands of tiny flags waved at a parade and discarded in the trash afterwards.

The flag is CONSTANTLY disrespected and no one gives a FUCK. Hell, did you see that picture going around of the Jets fan straight up sitting on a flag like a gosh darn picnic blanket? What was the response, cries of anger “HOW DARE THESE PEOPLE DISRESPECT THE FLAG!!!!”? No, it was jokes like “I’m more offended he’s drinking beer with a straw tbh”.

There is a pretty apparent double standard here.

And to your second point you’re right, he’s on the job, free speech isn’t meant to protect that. But why does that matter? His employer didn’t fire him. He was allowed to protest. You can argue all day long that he shouldn’t protest but that doesn’t mean he won’t or can’t. And where it gets really, really, really fishy is when the President of the United States starts to use his platform to call for someone to be fired. If this was Donald Trump, real estate mogul, no one would care. Fine, fire him, that’s up to you. It’s not a violation of free speech. But the President saying someone should face a penalty for expressing themselves? I don’t like that.

Jayhawk Jake > My bird IS the word
10/19/2017 at 15:25

Why do we constantly move the goal posts for these athletes?

Of course it’s an attention thing, that’s the whole point! To say look at what I am doing and listen to the message I’m trying to send. They have a massive stage, bigger than any of us will ever have. Bigger than they’d have “outside of work” and they’re taking advantage of it, and now that’s a bad thing? Or not enough?

Jayhawk Jake > My bird IS the word
10/19/2017 at 15:27

Did you not see all the other guys that did the same? I guess they haven’t been fired yet so it doesn’t count.

Chariotoflove > Jayhawk Jake
10/19/2017 at 15:57

Oh, as an ex-Boyscout the treatment of the flag burns me up. If you’re going to declare it a symbol of your love of country, then handle it properly. You know, I don’t think they even know what they’re doing, which is astonishing in its own way. Yeah it’s stupid to park your butt on a flag and then get upset when someone won’t stand in front of it.

I’m not calling for Kaepernick to be fined or whatever. If the league wants to do it or not, that’s up to them. All I was pointing out is that this isn’t a First Amendment issue.

And I think the president needs to shut up about the whole thing. If he wants to make a statement about his reverence for the flag and what it stands for, that’s fine. He needs to keep out of the determination of what to do about protesters violating league rules (not laws, league rules).

nermal > Bryan doesn't drive a 1M
10/19/2017 at 16:47

Context:

Sounds like a good message to me.

The legitimacy of the accusations from Rep Wilson are absolutely in question - How ironic that she has repeatedly voted against programs that will help veterans, but is now all of a sudden using a dead soldier to further her anti-Trump message.

It’s a shame that this has to be actually discussed.

Chariotoflove > DipodomysDeserti
10/19/2017 at 17:36

I don’t know about revealing ignorance in his critics although there is some there to be sure. But, all the brouhaha has brought attention to the original issue he was trying to raise people’s awareness of. So, yeah, in the end it can be counted a success. I wonder if his grievance against the NFL about being blacklisted for it will go anywhere.

gmporschenut also a fan of hondas > nermal
10/20/2017 at 00:23

“accusations from Rep Wilson are absolutely in question”

That he said “knew what he signed up for “

“So he called four people the other day and expressed his condolences in the best way that he could. And he said to me, what do I say? I said to him, sir, there’s nothing you can do to lighten the burden on these families.

Well, let me tell you what I told him. Let me tell you what my best friend, Joe Dunford, told me — because he was my casualty officer. He said, Kel, he was doing exactly what he wanted to do when he was killed. He knew what he was getting into by joining that 1 percent. He knew what the possibilities were because we’re at war. And when he died, in the four cases we’re talking about, Niger, and my son’s case in Afghanistan — when he died, he was surrounded by the best men on this Earth: his friends....

That’s what the President tried to say to four families the other day.”

So in the order of events, trump goes to Kelly “what do i saw” kelly goes “here is what was said to me”. Trump then calls, tries to say something along the lines “ He knew what he was getting into by joining that 1 percent” but instead of saying this to the father of a fallen soldier (also a general), was saying this to a greiving widow and mother.

congresswoman relays what was said.

trump denies and goes:

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/oct/18/trump-allegedly-tells-soldiers-widow-he-knew-what-he-signed-up-for “But Trump said: “I didn’t say what that congresswoman said. Didn’t say it at all – she knows it. I had a very nice conversation with the woman, the wife, who sounded like a lovely woman.”” trump says congresswoman lying, and has proof

whitehouse denies call was taped.

kelly goes up and his account doesn’t deny Wilsons claim.

Occams razor is a man with no finesse called a grieving family and probably butchered delievering condolence.